The scammer protocol..

[ADMIN]

hi its very rare i come in the forums however for something like this i have to.

Admin yes its a mafia based game but if you have people scamming credits bought with real money that is theft, though can be international and can not be taken to court it is theft and enough of a reason for people to not want to put money in to a game if that money can be stole by some person and they can get away.

Right now i donate when i can not alot but still if scamming was something that was allowed and ran wild i would not donate i would not trade with people i would not even be here.

thats my thoughts on this

Yet again I ask... what is escrow trading for then? If someone doesn't use it, how can the game / admin / mods be responsible? It's the player's fault!

[Vapula]

none the less players fault or not if you dont do something then more and more people will scam people and less and less people will think about donating since the game is over ran with scammers then who will want to play a game filled with scammers you might aswell just put at the login screen welcome to scammer kings leave your credit cards and paypal accounts at the door if you dont want to be a victim of theft

[JERRY.JERRY.JERRY...]

Apart from that, if someone is stupid enough to not use the escrow system, or uses external chat tools, then that's their own fault.

so if players sell points or other things in game for real cash they wont get banned ?

[Don.Varela]

put at the login screen welcome to scammer kings leave your credit cards and paypal accounts at the door if you dont want to be a victim of theft

LOL!!!!!! 

[Machiavelli]

If you scam, you get banned and your account should be deleted. No temporary bans. I don't see the point in it. I mean how many ppl would come back to a game after a year or more to do it right then? (This is the excuse Grumpster used the first time, and I don't know if THAT line is what convinced ADMIN he deserved a second chance, or if it was something else, but that's irrelevant). I'm not sure I understand how a scammer's mind works, but wouldn't they only come back to take revenge or to scam some more, hoping they won't get caught this time?

Zero tolerance is the only way. Once there's proof you scammed, you're out. As posted on rule 12 in the Rules section "All scammers that are reported and proven to have scam will be banned."

Ok, I had been writing a reply for hours when I read your reply, ADMIN.. I mean seriously.. You've basically just encouraged ppl to scam.
I think I'll give it a go, and scam ppl until I've made my point. I mean it's allowed right? New ppl should just use escrow. End of story?!

Next time a new player asks me for help, I'll just setup a deal so that I can scam them. If scamming's allowed I quit today, and I'll come back tomorrow with a bunch of multi accounts, as this should be allowed too, if I read right. Only reason for banning should be advertising other games and verbal abuse. I can work with that, but your "This game is one of the best text based mafia games, with a very loyal following of players" will no longer have its loyal following of players, though. That's a fact.

[Vapula]

Maybe thats what needs to happen for him to understand mach. maybe if all the loyal players that play by the rules just quit or stop donating maybe admin will finally get the picture. Cause if scamming runs wild all the legit players will leave and the donators will donate less cause they are no longer selling things and new players will last even shorter times cause they got scammed......I think its headed right path  *sarcasim*

[ADMIN]

What I'm saying is, I want to root out scamming at the most basic level, so that it doesn't even exist as a concept. Maybe I should just remove sending points & credits and money etc and we can only have escrow trading, then it's pretty clear to every player that if they exchange 1 credit for 1 point they are actually doing a transaction at that point.

I'm not saying scamming is good or it should be done, I'm saying I don't want to give anyone the possibility of scamming.

Can we start to think along these lines.

What I absolutely hate is these disputes, and having to decide who is right when both people show me proof and claim all sorts of things, and I have no idea how to be fair. Not to mention from a business perspective, I hate banning people permanently as it means -1 player.

So... how can the game dynamics get rid of scamming once and for all? This is the reason I created escrow trading, but people still seem to get scammed?? Which tbh pisses me off as the whole reason I created escrow trading is so people can create trustworthy trades!

[Vapula]

well believe it or not some people cant play by the rules and need to be banned. also escrow trading doesnt cover everything can still scam people for land pets and cars so if i am buying a dog for 1mil cash 2k points well i bought it for 1mil the dog is mine oh 2k points....what 2k points?.....see where i am going? sell some land 5mil cash 1k points. well theres my cash hey can i get my points now? what do you mean no? hmmm i can go all day and just change the numbers. so sometimes someone needs to be banned so new players stay old players stay and people that follow the rules stay.

more numbers 1 scammer gets away with something 1 person who listens to the rules quit, scammers strikes again, another player quits and again and again and again so how many players that follow the rules have quit? 5 people have quit instead of the one scammer getting banned.

So even with escrow theres still holes however that was a step in the right direction.

[Machiavelli]

If  you don't want to give any1 the possibility to scam you should ban all known scammers at least until you've found a way to prevent scams from ever taking place again. I wish I could contribute to that, but I don't see how it's possible, tho. Removing the send buttons would make everything more complicated, as you'd have to use Escrow for every single transaction... Removing the market isn't an option either, as prices are mainly determined by the prices asked there.  You can't create escrow deals for every potential interested buyer..
It's a nice addition to the game, but it's not fit to replace the send-option, or to replace the market.

From a business point of view I think 1 thing that would improve the game drastically, and please the crowd, which is utterly fed up with the current scammer policy. I think it's pretty obvious what I mean by this.

Also, changing the basics of the game to keep scammers playing is just not done.

[Depth]

Removing options to send/receive could also allow people to 'scam' you. It's currently possible to do the scamming I am thinking of however removing these options would make it easier IMO.

Whenever I do a deal with anyone I demand they send me the money/point/creds first simply because I don't want to risk them not holding up their end of the bargain.
However without the option to get paid before you get give them what they want, and instead have to take it out of your own resources first this can open you up to them simply changing their minds or they had no intention of purchasing it in the first place and just made you waste your own money on it for giggles.

[JayCee]

ADMIN I understand and respect that things are being done on a different note.. However, you have to understand something here.. A lot of these players - they have been here along time, this has been how things have always been handled.. scamming was not tolerated, Mafia game or not, because it became such a big issue. I don't know if you've noticed, but this little scamming outbreak drove quite a few long time players away.. A lot of people gravitated to MK based on the fact that no BS was allowed.. If you are going to take a stand and say you're going to allow scamming, you have to be prepared for the fall out for more people to walk away from MK.. This is not my opinion, this is what I know about the long time players. Again, I do understand that things are being done differently, however I do think it sucks for the players who have invested so much in this game based on it being one thing, and it seems, now it may be a whole different thing, with a different set of guidelines. I see what you're saying about one less player, however I think you need to look at the big picture as the ADMIN here and realize the good long time loyal players we lost due to recent big changes, and consider the future players to be lost. I can assure you - it's more than one. I think removing sending credits and points and such - basically reformatting the whole game based on Grumpster, because he is the main issue, is totally BS. I have been on MK for a long time, and I have done my mod job to the best of my ability for years now, without involving personal bias.. and I have to say I'm really disappointed to hear that everything I put into a game that I once really loved, was somewhat in vain because rules will continue to change for one bad seed who continues to screw up and screw over fair players.. I have to also note I am not alone in this. As far as rooting on scamming on a basic level does not work - this is false, banning scammers did work, and it made the fair players in MK content. We hadn't had a scammer like Grumpster who thought he could/should get away with anything in sometime until all the changes started.. why? Because others of his type were banned, and it was better for everyone, including MK. I still, think it's horrible you would change the entire game to appease someone who has shown 0 respect to other players and what they have worked for in this game, and really if you consider it for what it is, 0 respect for MK.

As for cristian, as you know selling cash, credits, and money was never allowed for real life cash, so I would assume it's still not.. I don't know if or why admin would allow that since it would only result in MK taking massive losses. At any rate to be safe I'd still go with the answer is no on that.. but if that changes, damn MK could be a nice money making tool, as Grumpster has proven.

Oh and Grump apparently you have a hard time reading, understanding, and following rules so let me highlight what you need here bud.. http://www.mafiakings.com/forum/index.php?topic=11.0
14. Do not make any unnecessary replies.

15. No short hand Replies, these are just replying "lol" or "wow thats great", make an intellectual reply.

[TwiztedYoungMan]

ADMIN I understand and respect that things are being done on a different note.. However, you have to understand something here.. A lot of these players - they have been here along time, this has been how things have always been handled.. scamming was not tolerated, Mafia game or not, because it became such a big issue. I don't know if you've noticed, but this little scamming outbreak drove quite a few long time players away.. A lot of people gravitated to MK based on the fact that no BS was allowed.. If you are going to take a stand and say you're going to allow scamming, you have to be prepared for the fall out for more people to walk away from MK.. This is not my opinion, this is what I know about the long time players. Again, I do understand that things are being done differently, however I do think it sucks for the players who have invested so much in this game based on it being one thing, and it seems, now it may be a whole different thing, with a different set of guidelines. I see what you're saying about one less player, however I think you need to look at the big picture as the ADMIN here and realize the good long time loyal players we lost due to recent big changes, and consider the future players to be lost. I can assure you - it's more than one. I think removing sending credits and points and such - basically reformatting the whole game based on Grumpster, because he is the main issue, is totally BS. I have been on MK for a long time, and I have done my mod job to the best of my ability for years now, without involving personal bias.. and I have to say I'm really disappointed to hear that everything I put into a game that I once really loved, was somewhat in vain because rules will continue to change for one bad seed who continues to screw up and screw over fair players.. I have to also note I am not alone in this. As far as rooting on scamming on a basic level does not work - this is false, banning scammers did work, and it made the fair players in MK content. We hadn't had a scammer like Grumpster who thought he could/should get away with anything in sometime until all the changes started.. why? Because others of his type were banned, and it was better for everyone, including MK. I still, think it's horrible you would change the entire game to appease someone who has shown 0 respect to other players and what they have worked for in this game, and really if you consider it for what it is, 0 respect for MK.

As for cristian, as you know selling cash, credits, and money was never allowed for real life cash, so I would assume it's still not.. I don't know if or why admin would allow that since it would only result in MK taking massive losses. At any rate to be safe I'd still go with the answer is no on that.. but if that changes, damn MK could be a nice money making tool, as Grumpster has proven.

Lol.

[JERRY.JERRY.JERRY...]

As for cristian, as you know selling cash, credits, and money was never allowed for real life cash, so I would assume it's still not.. I don't know if or why admin would allow that since it would only result in MK taking massive losses. At any rate to be safe I'd still go with the answer is no on that.. but if that changes, damn MK could be a nice money making tool, as Grumpster has proven.

Lol.

i know that JC, but i kinda wanna hear it from ADMIN if its allowed now
as things changed from the past

so, ADMIN pls reply: is it allowed to sell in game stuff for real cash ?

[ADMIN]

Here is a draft that I had created. I hope it is something that old players can be OK with as well. Let me know what you think, I am open to changing it:

    *** MafiaKings Rules of Moderation, Banning and Scamming ***

All breaking of rules has a 3 or 2 strikes rule. With all offenses initially the offender only gets a warning. It should be made clear that the rule they broke exists and they will be punished next time. Second time they get a light punishment. Third time they are permanently banned.

FOR MODS: all decisions can ONLY be made when proof is sent to you, not based on reputation, and any proof from OUTSIDE the game does not count, it can be forged. Proof is a MUST and must be from INTERNALLY.

PLAYERS: they must understand that only internal actions can be checked, unfortunately people's word does not count

1. You are only allowed to have ONE account
   - After Second Warning: all multi accounts are banned and primary account loses all cash
   - After Third Warning: all accounts are banned

2. You cannot enter any other accounts, even if requested by the account owner. Additionally you may not have non-players enter an account for any reason, even if requested by the account owner. If anyone ask you to do it, report it on the Support Desk.
   - After Second Warning: all cash & points are removed from offending accounts
   - Third Warning: all counts banned

3. Using serious verbal abuse (including racism) towards other players (whether through mail/forum or on a mobsters profile) is strictly forbidden. The definition of "verbal abuse" will be defined by the members of the staff not the players.
   - 2nd Warning: 1 week ban from chat & messagning
   - 3rd Warning: Permanent ban from chat & messaging

4. No flooding/spamming anywhere (it means continually filling the screen with repetitive text, whether it be advertising or plainly abusing three or more lines of chat causing a disruptive flow of unnecessary material). Massive use of caps can also be considered as spamming.
   - 2nd Warning: 1 week ban from chat & messagning
   - 3rd Warning: Permanent ban from chat & messaging

5. Asking for personal or contact information of any kind is strictly prohibited. Please do not post personal contact information on any part of MafiaKings. This includes important bank information and/or contact details.
   - 2nd Warning: 1 week ban from chat & messagning
   - 3rd Warning: Permanent ban from chat & messaging

6. Swearing on chat, shoutbox, forum, ads, profile or anywhere else on MafiaKings is not allowed. It is still considered swearing if the word is starred out, letters are re-arranged or it is clearly understood as swearing.
   - 2nd Warning: 1 week ban from chat & messagning
   - 3rd Warning: Permanent ban from chat & messaging

7. Using game-enhancing programs such as any form of Macros plugins, any form of auto-clicker programs, and any form of reloader plugins. The use of these programs set the abusing players at an unfair advantage over those who are playing manually, and the infraction will not be tolerated. Players caught or suspected of the use of one or more of these banned programs, plugins, or techniques are subject to banning, or account deletion at the discretion of the game admin.
   - After Second Warning: all cash & points are removed from offending accounts
   - Third Warning: all counts banned

8. Exploitation of any bugs or holes in the game will be punished with permanent ban and deletion of the account.
   - After Second Warning: all cash & points are removed from offending accounts
   - Third Warning: all counts banned

9. Any advertising of other websites is not tolerated and will result in a permanent ban.
   - 2nd Warning: 1 week ban from chat & messagning
   - 3rd Warning: Permanent ban from game

10. Scamming other players in-game or through an external tool (website , instant messaging, etc.) is FORBIDDEN! Use the in-game markets to protect yourself from scamming. IF YOU GOT SCAMMED BY USING EXTERNAL TOOLS, IT IS YOUR LOSS AND WE ARE 100% NOT RESPONSIBLE AS ALL PROOF CAN BE MANIPULATED. NOTHING WILL BE RECOVERED IF YOU USE EXTERNAL TOOLS. All scammers that are reported and proven to have scam will be banned. MafiaKings is not responsible for recovering your lost money, points, or items, but may intervene at the discretion of the admin.
   - 1st Warning: all scammed items & money returned or permanent ban
   - 2nd Warning: 1 week ban from chat & messaging, all scammed items & money returned or permanent ban
   - 3rd Warning: Permanent ban

11. The use of nudity and/or racism anywhere on this site is prohibited.
   - 2nd Warning: 1 week ban from chat & messagning
   - 3rd Warning: Permanent ban from game

12. Account sales are allowed, but items and cash & points from the other account cannot be sent to the new account.
   - 1st Warning: Items and cash & points must be returned
   - 2nd Warning: Ban for all accounts

13. Item, points cash sales externally for real money are NOT allowed under any circumstances
   - 1st Warning: Items and cash & points must be returned
   - 2nd Warning: Ban for all accounts

[Vapula]

i think that is great and see no problems with that